Legacy Mode: The Who

Today, the Legacy Mode beta was released, and Twitter and other social media outlets for Runescape were alight with hype and spam about the "new" release. To avoid getting into too much detail, I've been a Runescape player since 2004, I quit in 2008, and came back in 2013, just after EOC was released. And you know what, I love the EOC and the NIS. Especially since the Revolution update, I feel as though combat in Runescape has never before been so dynamic and alive.

But, you know, there was a fallout after the Evolution of Combat was released in 2012, and Jagex isn't happy that they lost so many paying customers. So what's the solution? Jagex comes out with the brilliant idea to flip the time switch and bring people back to the old era of combat with the simplified interface, all within the live game that still gets weekly updates. This is good, no? No.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't intend to go around pissing in other peoples' Cheerios just because it gives me my jollies, it's because this is definitively BAD for the overall health of the game, specifically by attracting an audience Runescape does not need.

Here, let me put it like this. Say Runescape is a restaurant you go to. You started going there, oh, 10 or so years ago and it was small back then, and the food was decent, but what really kept you coming back were the friends that went there and the owners which always kept you happy. As this restaurant grows in popularity, they start to throw in more stuff. More dishes, more employees, a renovated interior, a new menu look... But you keep going to the restaurant because you now love the people who own it, and it's a special place for you. Then, the restaurant owners make the executive decision to make a big change. They're completely updating their menu. Some of the recipes are old and use ingredients that aren't very readily available, and only a few of the dishes are even regularly ordered, so they decide to keep the great stuff, change the ok stuff, and toss out the old stuff for some newer, spunkier vittles. So, what do you do? Do you just leave the restaurant forever and say "f*ck you" to the people who have provided you a service for all these years? A logical person would not, and they would probably say something to the essence of, "you know what, I loved the old place, but sometimes change can be good. I know these people, and if I give it time, I'm sure this change will have been for the better."

Now think back to the EOC change as a parallel to this hypothetical tale. Does it not seem eerily familiar?

In hindsight, most of us, I am sure, can all agree that, although we may not have liked the change, and even if we still don't like the combat as much as we did previously, those that left because of the change are those that we should never have had in the community in the first place.

By and large, the people that stuck with Runescape were those that were committed to the game, and were willing to cope with the fact that the old stuff they like IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE SAME. This is chiefly a more mature audience, wise enough to see past the ephemeral effects of the "now," and take a brief glimpse into the future. On the other hand, those that quit are those that are unwilling to change, and want their way because, well godammit, they want it! These people are immature, and a virus to the community.

Go to the Legacy beta and I DARE YOU to pk with EOC. Yep, you can fully expect to be hurled with insults, vulgarities, and other offensive language all because you've decided that the EOC is better for you. In the beta, it's been seen that many players have been crowding JMods, begging for Legacy to completely overtake EOC and the NIS, asking for old attack animations, and more.

Don't people see? These people cannot, rather, WILL NOT be satisfied. They are never happy, and never want to be because they are, for the most part, a byproduct of an age where everything is about me.

Some of you may have read this and take offense because you feel as though I am pigeon-holing those who choose to use Legacy, and you must understand that this is not my intent. I am friends with several people who weren't fans of the new stuff, and will use Legacy simply because they are more comfortable with it. And you know, I'm totally fine with that because there is a large difference between them and the people on the beta worlds now: they didn't leave the restaurant entirely because of a change of menu.

I implore you all to consider the ramifications of this "update," and whether or not it may be a detriment for the community as a whole. Please let me know how you feel about Legacy. Also, if you do have a problem with the harsh claims I've just made, log on to the beta and see for yourself. I'd love to be wrong, but I am all too worried that I am not.

I don't think it's a good idea to have two separate combat systems either. I think it's silly with the introduction of Momentum. However, I'm willing to admit perhaps there are some reasons people want Legacy. Perhaps it's better for PKing? I've never been big into combat at all, and even though I'm maxed, I only did it because I felt like I had to. Reality is I'm a skiller and a social player and started playing runescape only after googling "mmorpgs that don't require combat".
I only hope this won't fragment the game and make combat even MORE confusing for someone like me who already has trouble with it. I took the time to learn EOC, which was a pain in the bum, and now that I've learned it, I feel like I'm going to have to evaluate which combat system is more beneficial in which situation. It's just meh, and I'm really really not interested.
Truth be told, I probably won't be doing combat now anyway.

However, I'm willing to admit perhaps there are some reasons people want Legacy.

I don't want to come off as an extremist from the other side of the fence, as I totally get this as well. EOC and the NIS aren't perfect, and there are things I would love back if I could have them (Brown/gray backgrounds for interfaces instead of Blue/black, for instance), but my main issue is the fact that so many of those that left and are now flocking back simply want what they want, and nothing else will do. These players are fickle, volatile, and a leech to the morale of the game.

I simply feel as though people like you and I, and all others that decided that Runescape was worth sticking around for are the ones getting shafted here. I feel as though Jagex should have cut their losses a long time ago, and never turned around and even entertained the possibility of playing to wills of such egocentric whiners.

My concern is not for combat, not for a simpler interface, but for the quality of people that this change attracts. Are these really the people we want playing with us?

Holy shit this was an accurate read. Personally I find eoc a lot more involved. Like even with revolution it doesn't feel as much click and kill as it used to. There's a new art to it, customising your abilities for the most efficient method, trying things that no one else considers. E.g. I first started using chain and detonate at abby demons in the slayer tower as a joke because the ability looked cool, turns out that's the best kills/h in game.

With legacy there is no real way to try these things. Yes it may be better for pking? But I have friends on eoc who are extremely good pkers with that system and say it requires a lot more skill than old pking did.

The community it brings back will never last. What they had 5 years ago is gone. Thry might play for nostalgia for a month or two, but really this just feels like another cheap jagex trick to get more memberships out of these people one more time.

After using the beta yesterday I was confused about what was going on actually. It's a completely different game. At one point in my duel with @Blur I said "How the hell did I get to full hp?" What I find even worse with it is how things with specials are more powerful than level 90 weapons which costs hundred of millions of gp. Like dragon claws are sub 10m (Probably have gone up since beta was released) but are probably the best weapon in the game at level 60?? The whole system is just a mess.

I havent tested it out yet, but I am waiting for the lag to disipate on those servers before going back, How does eoc interact with legacy? If I used a stun is that an automatic win for me in a fight? Idk.

Down with nostalgia, Up with the integrity of the game.

From the outset of the legacy poll I felt it was completely wasted dev time. Not to mention that the poll came out before revolution was even put into the main game which made legacy completely obsolete as the only legitimate argument for legacy would be for a less intensive combat system which revolution provides. Personally I am going to keep fighting and hope that we can prevent legacy from coming into the main game since it is just completely unneeded.

Also some of the mechanic changes being done with legacy I don't agree with. For 1 I liked that the healing provided by food was dependent on your constitution level. It gave the lower tier food value for the low levels and prevented a low level from say having a shark and just eat 1 piece of food to go to full health. It also gave constitution a use aside from giving more health.

I also don't like going back to 138 level system since when it came to facing npcs the 200 system was much more accurate.

As for the PKing scene I don't care at all bout that scene so I don't care if legacy would be better for PKing or whatever.

I definitely agree with your statements. From my own personal experience there is definitely a disparity between the communities that play on the 2007 format of Runescape and then the player base on Runescape 3. Naturally this can not be said for every player, but I have generally found that a majority of the players that now play RS3 are simply more mature and well mannered than those that play on 07scape. Again I'd like to stress as you did that this is a generality and by no means am I saying every 2007 player is toxic, but by and large that community just isn't playing for the same reasons as the community on RS3.

With that being said, I think the implementation of Legacy will attract like-minded individuals of 07scape, onto the current Runescape platform. Which is not a community I am all to thrilled about mixing. I also wish that such a poll would have been put in place following the release of Revolution, however I have a hard time believing there would be a different outcome. The same people will always see the potential to, "go back to the old Runescape" and it will be the way it used to be when they were in grade school. However, that will never be the case, and these individuals will ultimately never be pleased.

I am also curious as to how these two systems will interact with each other. Like many of you I am not generally interested in PVP, however with special attacks being something that is always readily available where as abilities are something that must be built towards using the higher tier ones, I'm not sure how that would play out as far as PVM. I feel like it would be a distinct advantage to either platform, depending on what the forum is. Also special attacks such as the one on the Enhance Excalibur; I wonder if they are intending to bring back these stat-boosting/abilities that are not necessarily for use in combat special attacks.

It will be interesting to see, I just hope that Jagex ceases to chase their tale in the near future and understand that while player feedback is good when it comes to a developing a game, it should not be something that causes you to second guess massive updates that countless work hours have been put towards building. That way of thinking is not conducive to a games life expectancy.

The argument about Legacy Mode aside, there's a lot of stuff in the OP that rubs me the wrong way. Namely:

Here, let me put it like this. Say Runescape is a restaurant you go to. You started going there, oh, 10 or so years ago and it was small back then, and the food was decent, but what really kept you coming back were the friends that went there and the owners which always kept you happy. As this restaurant grows in popularity, they start to throw in more stuff. More dishes, more employees, a renovated interior, a new menu look... But you keep going to the restaurant because you now love the people who own it, and it's a special place for you. Then, the restaurant owners make the executive decision to make a big change. They're completely updating their menu. Some of the recipes are old and use ingredients that aren't very readily available, and only a few of the dishes are even regularly ordered, so they decide to keep the great stuff, change the ok stuff, and toss out the old stuff for some newer, spunkier vittles. So, what do you do? Do you just leave the restaurant forever and say "f*ck you" to the people who have provided you a service for all these years? A logical person would not, and they would probably say something to the essence of, "you know what, I loved the old place, but sometimes change can be good. I know these people, and if I give it time, I'm sure this change will have been for the better."

If my favorite restaurant stops serving my favorite meal after 10 years, I don't have to throw a fit and storm out of there. But I'm sure as hell going to complain about it, and I don't owe it to the restaurant owner to keep going to a place that doesn't serve my kind of food anymore. I might give the new menu a shot, but that's not for someone else to decide.

In hindsight, most of us, I am sure, can all agree that, although we may not have liked the change, and even if we still don't like the combat as much as we did previously, those that left because of the change are those that we should never have had in the community in the first place.

Why? Because they disliked EOC? Because they stopped playing a game after it changed into something that didn't appeal to them? In either case, they don't owe Jagex their loyalty. They played the game, and likely spent some money on it over the years, and it's entirely reasonable for them to walk away if Jagex took away their combat and replaced it with something they didn't want.

By and large, the people that stuck with Runescape were those that were committed to the game, and were willing to cope with the fact that the old stuff they like IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE SAME. This is chiefly a more mature audience, wise enough to see past the ephemeral effects of the "now," and take a brief glimpse into the future. On the other hand, those that quit are those that are unwilling to change, and want their way because, well godammit, they want it! These people are immature, and a virus to the community.

I would rather have those people than someone who thinks its their business to tell others how they must spend their time and money. There are a whole lot of snobs on every side who think their way is the only way, who will blast anyone who sees it another way, and who just can't let it go. We'd all be better off if everyone would agree to disagree. This kind of stubbornness and hostility hurts everyone more than a video game update that some people won't use.

To extend your restaurant analogy, you're a patron who really likes the new menu, and you're mad at me for coming back because the restaurant also started serving my favorite sandwich again. Don't you think that's kind of silly?

To extend your restaurant analogy, you're a patron who really likes the new menu, and you're mad at me for coming back because the restaurant also started serving my favorite sandwich again. Don't you think that's kind of silly?

If the restaurant started serving your favorite sandwich again and it had no effect on the new menu then yeah being mad is silly. But if the old sandwich coming back negatively impacted the new menu then I have the right to be mad. In this case Legacy would have more negatives impacting EoC than positives so complaining bout it is justified.

To extend your restaurant analogy, you're a patron who really likes the new menu, and you're mad at me for coming back because the restaurant also started serving my favorite sandwich again. Don't you think that's kind of silly?

If the restaurant started serving your favorite sandwich again and it had no effect on the new menu then yeah being mad is silly. But if the old sandwich coming back negatively impacted the new menu then I have the right to be mad. In this case Legacy would have more negatives impacting EoC than positives so complaining bout it is justified.

The main point of his argument, though, is that bringing back my favorite sandwich is inherently bad because I came back to the restaurant.

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