Squeal of Fortune – Extra Spins

Runescapers are spoiled. RS has an insane amount of content to the point where a good probably quarter goes almost completely unused, simply because "there's better things to do." To say this update in particular stagnates things for another week just proves that; most MMOs update what, bi-weekly? Monthly? And usually then it's just a patch to fix what's wrong with the already existing content. As people have also said, many other games have microtransactions, for a lot more advantageous things than fairly useless spins.

Being "spoiled" has nothing to do with it. Frequent game updates and improvements are among the benefits Jagex lists as incentives to purchase membership, and we have every right to complain if we feel we're not getting what we pay for.

More importantly, I'd like to see the game flourish. Good updates will bring in more players, which is an improvement in and of itself. This update does the opposite.

You're getting a whole lot for the price you pay for a membership to RS, and while I'm not saying it robs you from the right to complain, people go way overboard over something that's not even a big deal. I really don't see how it's "detrimental" to the game, besides some people getting upset that other people can get more experience than them by spending money.

And yes, there is a lot of unused content. There are quests which are played through only once. There's content that doesn't draw enough people to make it worthwhile. And there's content that just isn't that much fun to begin with. Sometimes these things are hit and miss, but at the very least we could say there was a legitimate effort to improve Runescape. You can't say that with this. The sole purpose of this update, no matter what anyone tells you, was to line the pockets of Jagex's investors. They don't care what effect it has on the game, as long as it makes them richer.

I don't see what "effect" this has on the game other than, like I said before, people with some spare cash that want to spend it on a game getting more exp than those that do not. Unless you take your experience more seriously than you should (Runescape is still a GAME), then I don't see the issue. And Jagex is a business...they're supposed to make money.

Finally, what other companies do with their MMOs is irrelevant. Runescape got to where it is today on a different business model, and Jagex absolutely did not have to resort to tactics such as the ones employed in other games. They are going against the principles that made them successful in the first place, and their users are becoming less and less interested in their product.

They didn't "need" to, but if they can make themselves a little more money while not really changing anything, personally, I don't have a problem with that. Apparently enough users are still interested for them to keep spending time developing new content as well.

I explained previously the negative effects this will have and the ways it hurts the game in the long run, and in fact you haven't disputed a single one of my points. You simply say you don't care.

I, on the other hand, have been playing this game for 9 or 10 years, and I care deeply what happens to it. This update is disturbing because it has never been more clear that the people running Runescape don't care about their product. This update is just the first. The owners of Jagex will bleed this game dry until there is nothing left, then they will toss it aside and move on, because so many of their players are willfully ignorant and don't care what happens.

I explained previously the negative effects this will have and the ways it hurts the game in the long run, and in fact you haven't disputed a single one of my points. You simply say you don't care.

I, on the other hand, have been playing this game for 9 or 10 years, and I care deeply what happens to it. This update is disturbing because it has never been more clear that the people running Runescape don't care about their product. This update is just the first. The owners of Jagex will bleed this game dry until there is nothing left, then they will toss it aside and move on, because so many of their players are willfully ignorant and don't care what happens.

The only negative effects you pointed out were the "removal" of competitive aspect, which isn't a universal negative as people don't all play this game to compete, the fact that the game "stagnates" for a week, even though there have been off weeks throughout the entire existence of RS, and the fact that Jagex is making money off this, which as a business is their purpose.

And I never said I didn't care at all about it (I've been playing for 8 years, though I don't see what length of playtime has to do with anything), I said the way I personally play this game is unaffected by someone buying a few SOF spins. Call me "ignorant" if you will that I don't see the fact that there are minor microtransactions now a bad thing, but as of right now I don't see Jagex bleeding anything dry yet.

IF (and that's a big if) Jagex continues introducing larger microtransactions and bigger in-game advantages for money, then I'll start being worried, but to be frank I just don't see why this update is the one to make everyone scream that RS is going to die, when people have said it about so many other larger updates before.

I explained previously the negative effects this will have and the ways it hurts the game in the long run, and in fact you haven't disputed a single one of my points. You simply say you don't care.

I, on the other hand, have been playing this game for 9 or 10 years, and I care deeply what happens to it. This update is disturbing because it has never been more clear that the people running Runescape don't care about their product. This update is just the first. The owners of Jagex will bleed this game dry until there is nothing left, then they will toss it aside and move on, because so many of their players are willfully ignorant and don't care what happens.

If you want to be frank, he disputed all of your points. And he made a genuine point on all of them.

Play time does not determine how much you care for a game, in fact I'd say those with less play time care more, as things have not yet occurred to them yet, but regardless.

You can't make an assumption that developers do not care for a game based off of a genuine content update. Let's not forget that six separate categories were released in order to gain spins, last I checked six > one.

I highly doubt Jagex will drain RuneScape dry, their biggest profit comes from RuneScape, and games such as StellarDawn have not even come close to being proven that it will be a success, so in the highly unlikely circumstance that they do dry out RuneScape, it won't be for many years.

You'd also be surprised at the number of people who actually put in the time and effort to this game, I doubt they are without care to what happens to the game.

The only negative effects you pointed out were the "removal" of competitive aspect, which isn't a universal negative as people don't all play this game to compete

And as I said before, the fairness of the game IS compromised when people are allowed to buy their way to the top. The fact that there are players who do not play to compete does not minimize the issue, and the fact that you do not play this way does not make it wrong that others do.

the fact that the game "stagnates" for a week, even though there have been off weeks throughout the entire existence of RS

When we have a no update week, it does not mean the Jagex developers have stopped working on updates. It means there is nothing ready to be released at that point. I am not concerned that we didn't get a good update this week, but that the effort was instead spent on this.

and the fact that Jagex is making money off this, which as a business is their purpose.

I never once said it was bad for Jagex to increase their revenue. I care little what they do to make money, so long as it does not compromise the game.

And I never said I didn't care at all about it (I've been playing for 8 years, though I don't see what length of playtime has to do with anything)

Maybe it wasn't necessary for me to quantify my investment in the game, but my point is that I've spent a heck of a lot of time and money on it and don't want to see it go downhill. If you say you also care about the game, I can only believe you're telling the truth, but that is not the impression you gave me.

I said the way I personally play this game is unaffected by someone buying a few SOF spins.

And you're entitled to that opinion, but so far that's pretty much your whole argument and it does nothing to diminish the concerns that I have, along with other players who are not happy with this update.

IF (and that's a big if) Jagex continues introducing larger microtransactions and bigger in-game advantages for money, then I'll start being worried

And by then it will be too late. And I have no doubt that is coming sooner rather than later. If Jagex sees that their customer base is basically willing to tolerate this, what makes you think they won't do it again?

but to be frank I just don't see why this update is the one to make everyone scream that RS is going to die, when people have said it about so many other larger updates before.

It's not about the scale of the update. It's a reversal of a principle that has governed Runescape for its entire existence. If

If you want to be frank, he disputed all of your points. And he made a genuine point on all of them.

I do want to be frank. Arguments to the tune of "this does not affect me" don't address any of the issues, they simply brush them aside. If a genuine point has been made, I missed it among all of his dismissive remarks.

Play time does not determine how much you care for a game

I'd say those with less play time care more, as things have not yet occurred to them yet, but regardless.

Which is it?

You can't make an assumption that developers do not care for a game based off of a genuine content update.

I made no such assumption. In fact, I think the developers themselves may be just as upset about this as many of the players, but ultimately they have to do what their boss tells them. It's not until you get to the top that you find the people who are running the show, and I still contend that those people don't care.

Let's not forget that six separate categories were released in order to gain spins, last I checked six > one.

Quality over quantity. The six have relatively little impact, while the one does all the damage.

In my opinion Jagex is just cashing in as much as they can on Runescape before they jump ship to the new space based game they have planned. Not pleased at all with this update.

"If you can't beat them, join them".

Why should jagex miss out on all that real world cash?

Personally, I do not wish to participate in buying more for real cash.
I can't justify the $$$. Simple as that.

I do have a concern though. Say I am hunting a zombie impling, with my level 90 hunting, and another guy is trying to catch the same impling but they have 99 hunting due to paying real cash for the experience lamps. That clearly gives the other person an unfair advantage just by virtue of their deep pockets. (Maybe not the best example - you could compare it to mining runite but I have 99 mining myself).

The same could be true of player killing I suppose, but I never involve myself in that activity.

"If you can't beat them, join them".

Why should jagex miss out on all that real world cash?

Personally, I do not wish to participate in buying more for real cash.
I can't justify the $$$. Simple as that.

I do have a concern though. Say I am hunting a zombie impling, with my level 90 hunting, and another guy is trying to catch the same impling but they have 99 hunting due to paying real cash for the experience lamps. That clearly gives the other person an unfair advantage just by virtue of their deep pockets. (Maybe not the best example - you could compare it to mining runite but I have 99 mining myself).

The same could be true of player killing I suppose, but I never involve myself in that activity.

The problem with the can't beat em join em mindset is that Jagex was known and respected for not conforming to the rest of the MMOs by not implementing a form of RWT like practically every other MMO has. From the beginning they had been anti-RWT and we have grown up with them being against RL status giving advantage in game. Before it didn't matter if you were rich irl or poor as long as you could put in time you were equal in RS. Now if you have a ton of cash you can cut down the time in RS by a lot which is a big advantage. And I do believe this is only the beginning. If Jagex think we don't mind they will move on to more extreme implementations of RWT besides just buying spins to gamble for stuff that does give an advantage. Of course the biggest problem of this is not the fact of them implementing RWT it's the fact that implementing RWT goes against everything Jagex has stood for for these past 11 years and contradicts the rules they themselves set and have enforced for all this time. The biggest thing this update has done is destroy any honor Jagex had and shows them as not caring bout their own rules. This is definitely going to hurt the player base. As for how many actually quit due to this is hard to know. Most likely few will quit since the ones that have stuck around this long are too addicted to quit since they have stayed through all the crap Jagex have done over the years. Though in all honesty this is the first time they have ever totally gone back on their own rules. All the other crap at least they did with their own rules backing them.

I've addressed your points to the best of my ability, but you seem to have already made up your mind that I don't give care about this update at all and that my argument has no basis against your opinion. I've yet to see you truly address what awful effect you seem to think this has on the game, besides people paying for faster experience. Sure, people will get faster experience and it causes an imbalance in the favor of the small percentage of people who are willing to pay thousands of real dollars for experience, but I really don't see how it hurts the game as a whole. As for them going further, perhaps I'm naive, but until I see them make another step towards major microtransactions, I see no terrible harm done as some players do.

So, if you care to elaborate how this hurts the game as a whole more entirely instead of your unconvincing argument (to me) thus far, then please do, otherwise I'll be chalking it up to we agree to disagree about this and leave it at that.

I've addressed your points to the best of my ability, but you seem to have already made up your mind that I don't give care about this update at all and that my argument has no basis against your opinion. I've yet to see you truly address what awful effect you seem to think this has on the game, besides people paying for faster experience. Sure, people will get faster experience and it causes an imbalance in the favor of the small percentage of people who are willing to pay thousands of real dollars for experience, but I really don't see how it hurts the game as a whole. As for them going further, perhaps I'm naive, but until I see them make another step towards major microtransactions, I see no terrible harm done as some players do.

So, if you care to elaborate how this hurts the game as a whole more entirely instead of your unconvincing argument (to me) thus far, then please do, otherwise I'll be chalking it up to we agree to disagree about this and leave it at that.

The problem is that if Jagex think we accept this they will implement more methods of RWTing. And that will eventually kill RS because lets face it there are far better games to play if the best way to play it is via RWT. Runescape is one of the few if any remaining games that doesn't have RWT and it's one of the bigger things that sets it apart from the rest. Your income irl has no effect on your game character so that everyone is on a level playing field. This coupled with being a browser game is what has kept Runescape alive and going. Not to mention that RWT would totally kill the ingame economy to where the only way to get anywhere would be to utilize RWT. It has happened with other games and will happen here. The only way the economy getting shot to hell wouldn't effect you is if you were a self sustained player which I admit more people are doing. There really is only negative things to come from RWT with no actual benefits so it's a poor choice to do anyway.